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Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

Last post 11-09-2007 10:22 PM by jtyphoon. 5 replies.
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  • 10-09-2007 03:46 AM

    • jotis
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 10-08-2007
    • Posts 1

    Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

    I currently own a Vespa GT200L, Piaggio BV500 and a new Piaggio MP3. I would like to swap the engine from the BV500 into the MP3. My question does not involve the physical install, but what electronic controls, sensors and any electronics that should swap over to replace the Quasar 250 with the Master 500. The BV500 may be considered a donor vehicle. The swap will be documented for a possible future magazine article and any positive assistance would receive due credit. Actively seeking the advice of any knowledgeable technician, contact me at jack.otis@calgaryflyingclub.com Why do this? While riding have you ever worried about loose gravel covering pavement, manhole covers, train tracks, pavement cracks, wet roads? Ride an MP3 objectively and you will never gladly go back to two wheels. 500cc + 3 wheels = just about right, The new MP3 400EI won't be enough, the new Gilera Fuoco 500 is, well, not very attractive to me and I have this Vespa GT with a 200cc Leader waiting for a 250cc Quasar .......All help will be acknowleged and appreciated.

  • 10-09-2007 09:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

     From the information I had a look at on the piaggio website, I would say you will most likely need to transfer everything over.  Being EFI, the computer will be a must, I'm uncertain what ignition system it runs so I would hazard that the CDI will need to be swapped as well.  Again I'm uncertain as to what sensors each engine runs, but things like the EGO sensor may well be different so may need to be transferred across.  Voltage regulator would most likely be another item to be transferred across as the 500 should have a significantly larger generator output.  If there is an onboard alarm/immobiliser that will also further complicate the transfer depending on how the alarm is configured.

    Disclaimer to the above: I am not a scooter technician, I have significant experience in the world of car modifications and the above is largely based on that and my brief reading of BV500 specs.  There are several extremely helpful technically oriented people on this site so hopefully they will post with some more specific advice for you.

    Just my thoughts, comments and opinions. 

  • 11-07-2007 02:19 AM In reply to

    Re: Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

    From my research of the ADRs and consultation with DOT, various motor engineers and motoring organisations such as VACC,  a conversion of this type would render invalid the ADR certification.  I spent many many hours and a lot of money researching this as I wanted to do an petrol to diesel engine swap in a four wheel drive I owned and that vehicle was available in Australia with a diesel engine.

    The rules do not permit engine replacement (for road use) with an engine type or size other than was originally fitted to THAT particular vehicle. 

    It does not matter that a particular model is available with a larger engine,  the key is,  what was fitted to your vehicle as original equipment.

    Interestingly,  there seems to be no problem with increasing your existing engine size with the likes of re-boring,  cylinder replacement etc, provided you continue to meet all aspects of the certification such as emission control etc and in the case of LA certified scoots the speed restriction would still apply.

    If you want to fully comply with the law and really want to fit a bigger engine to a scooter, motor car etc,  then you need to purchase a pre ADR vehicle, that way you only have to cope with your particular states' legislation.

    I'm amused that the usual objectors to 50cc modifications have not all jumped up and down about this...........

    PS:  I am not claiming that I have always fully complied with ADR legislation,  but we all need to be aware of the law and the risks.

     

     

    Deklan 

    “It’s not the destination but the journey”
    Vespa GT200 in Grigio (Smokey Grey)

  • 11-07-2007 01:28 PM In reply to

    • VENTURI
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-28-2007
    • Gold Coast
    • Posts 442

    Re: Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

     

    2 words- Engineers certificate.

    It is possible to change engines in a vehicle as long as the weight & spec of said vehicle is sufficient or brought up to sufficient spec as defined by an approved engineer in your state. I am not saying that it can be legally done in this case but I have put a 6.2L engine in a car with max engine capacity of 3.3L....Legally.

     

    It's a can of worms, but can be done.

  • 11-07-2007 02:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

     Please note,  in my post I was referring only to the requirements of ADRs. 

    State motor registries will have differing policies on what is permitted,   at the time I was doing my research,  the Victorian Motor Registry told me in writing that all I would need to do was produce an motor engineers certificate and they would allow registration. 

    This conflicted with the written advice from the federal DOT that if I replaced my petrol engine with a diesel engine,  (even though that model of Landcruiser was available with a diesel and my planned replacement was a diesel motor from the same model Landcruiser) that my vehicle would no longer comply with it's ADR certification and could not be legally registered.

    Go figure.......  does the old rule of law apply that Federal legislation over-rides State legislation ?? 

    In my case,  I decided against the engine swap purely because I was planning a round Australia trip and had some concerns about using the vehicle on other states in the event that I had an accident.  If I had planned on only using the vehicle in Victoria,  I would have been happy to take the risk based on the written advice from VicRoads. 

    Deklan 

    “It’s not the destination but the journey”
    Vespa GT200 in Grigio (Smokey Grey)

  • 11-09-2007 10:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Piaggio MP3, engine conversion Quasar 250 to Master 500

    I cant see this being possible as the engine mounts on these engines are completely different how the 500 engine mount will fit in a MP3 frame is beyond me i work on these everyday and the two engines could not be anymore different, the 500 motor is a lot heavier, the weight difference front to rear on a MP3 is about 5 kilos to the front and to change that balance could do strange things to a MP3 , good luck i hope you succeed

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