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Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

Last post 10-14-2012 08:06 PM by bobalini. 14 replies.
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  • 08-24-2012 08:18 AM

    • purehate
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    • Joined on 07-22-2012
    • Gold coast
    • Posts 10

    Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    When I got my TGB 303rs Hawk 50cc 2009, it came with 10w 40 oil and my dad just came up for a visit... Old man kwaka 900 reckons I need to be putting 2 stroke in it :/ 

    Can someone clarify this for me or hook me up with an owners manual for this? I have sent an email to TGB and had no response from them.. Cheers!

    When in doubt - mosh
  • 08-24-2012 08:57 AM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    The oil you got could be 10w40 2-stroke oil. 2-stroke (2T) oil leaves less ash behind when it gets burned with the petrol.

    I'm assuming that the scooter is a 2T to begin with. I'll do a bit more research to see if 2T oil can be safely used in a 4T, but it should be fine.

    4 years and 20,000 K's later, I'm still scootering, and you guys are stuck with me!
  • 08-24-2012 09:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

     When self mix (oil tank) first came out late sixties  we used 4 stroke oil 20w50  in 2 strokes but carried a spare spark plug in the pocket as they oiled up a lot with spirited riding . Smoked a lot & caused carbon build up use a good 2 stroke oil now they are available . 2 stroke oil in a 4 stroke engine no way its designed for single use and be burned away

  • 08-24-2012 09:35 AM In reply to

    • purehate
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    • Joined on 07-22-2012
    • Gold coast
    • Posts 10

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    So is this scooter 2 stroke or 4??..

    I'm a little confused with the replies - what should I be using? 

    When in doubt - mosh
  • 08-24-2012 09:40 AM In reply to

    • purehate
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 07-22-2012
    • Gold coast
    • Posts 10

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    While I have your attention - is the 24 and 26 tyre pressure combination the way to go?

    When in doubt - mosh
  • 08-24-2012 09:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

     Its a 2 stroke hasn't it got a separate oil tank you put the oil into ?

  • 08-24-2012 09:59 AM In reply to

    • purehate
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 07-22-2012
    • Gold coast
    • Posts 10

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    Yeah like under the seat I've got one for fuel and one for oil, so should I be using 10w 40 two stroke oil? Is that the go?

     

    Will that stop it from smoking so much too?

    When in doubt - mosh
  • 08-24-2012 10:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    It's definitely a 2T. There aren't any 50cc 4 stroke TGB Hawks. I would use a 2-stroke oil, and probably a good one, it's a fairly cheap insurance policy, really.

    10w40 2-stroke oil's probably the best bet - as for tyre pressures, run the front higher than the rear, and have a look in the owner's manual, or ask at a bike shop if you've lost your manual.

     

    4 years and 20,000 K's later, I'm still scootering, and you guys are stuck with me!
  • 08-24-2012 10:29 AM In reply to

    • purehate
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 07-22-2012
    • Gold coast
    • Posts 10

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

     

    That's the response I was looking for! Thanks brother - I'm trying to get hold of the manual at the moment, thanks again for the assist!

    When in doubt - mosh
  • 08-24-2012 04:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

     10w40 is a multi-grade oil so don't think is a 2 stroke oil whats it say on the container ?

    Have a look here there maybe a handbook for your scooter http://www.motorcycle.in.th/filemgmt/index.php

  • 09-08-2012 09:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    DO NOT put engine oil in your two stroke!!

    Two strokes are very specific in their oiling needs. If you want to save money you can buy two stroke oil in the motoring sections of Big W or K Mart etc.

    Make sure it says 2 stroke on the front. There are basic ones (for whipper snippers etc) up to fancier ones (performance motorcycles etc). All will do the job but your should be okay with a Castrol or Motul 2 stroke oil or similar.

     

  • 09-11-2012 02:36 PM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 822

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

     I use Shell SX2 which is a premium 2 stroke oil for this type of engine.

    Run the existing oil in the tank till its low then fill the tank with the new oil.

    After a few tank fulls of petrol it should be on the new oil and able to burn the old oil and carbon out of the engine and exhaust.  Ride the scooter like you stole it for a while then do a hot run at 50 - 60 km/hr for 10 minutes to get the oil in the engine and exhaust burning.  You will know when its burning because lots of blue smoke will come out of the exhaust.  Keep running it hard till the smoke stops indicating the oil and carbon has burnt out.  On a badly fouled engine, it can take 30 minutes of riding to burn the oil out of the exhaust.

    After burning and cleaning out the engine, it should run a bit harder and a bit louder.  All the oil and carbon in the engine and exhaust blocks the engine and causes wear.  With good oil it should last a very long time.

    I have done this on two stroke scooters and motorbikes several times and the cleaner engine definitely makes riding fun.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 10-12-2012 07:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

     

    Hi all, with 2 strokes after 1980 the bearing tolerances etc have been trimmed down.

    With 30 years plus worldwide 2 stroke race engine building/tuning experience there are a few rules to make sure your engine is reliable.

    1. DO NOT USE 4 stroke oil. The esters will not mix with the fuel easily and it causes friction on the bearings, rings etc. No lubrication. It pools in the  crankcase and makes it hard to start.

    2. Only use 1 type of 2stroke oil. Never change brands, grades or mineral to synthetic. The oil causes certain wear properties to the parts,      changing oil type/brand/grade can lead to premature wear or engine seizure. Only chage oils at rebuild time.

    3. Always err on the too much oil side. Easier to de-coke than it is to rebuild.

    4. Buy the best oil you can readily get. Local garages etc. No good running out of oil and only 4 places in Australia sell it. Castrol 2T is available    everywhere, mower shops, bike shops, jetski shops, garages and so on..

    5. With 50cc oil injected scooter's you should put 5ml of oil for each litre of fuel in the petrol. The oil pump cannot supply enough oil at sustained high rev's to keep the engine lubricated properly.

    With my mojo 50cc scooter I have removed the oil pump and run pre-mix at 65/1. I use GRO go-kart oil.

    Lastly you should not use 2stroke oil in 4 stroke bikes as the clutch/gearbox on most 4stroke bikes uses the same oil as the crank, pistons. 2 stroke oil in a 4 stroke causes heaps of problems, clutch slippage and bearing knock come to mind.Hmm

  • 10-14-2012 06:42 AM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 822

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    Different oil injected 2 strokes have different systems and ratios of oil being injected.

    My standard YAmaha Bee Wee had a throttle cable which changed the fuel pump and increased the oil at higher throttles.  It averaged 50:1 mix.

    My standard Yamaha Zuma had a fixed fuel pump and averaged about 75:1 mix on the veryol stressed engine.

    Premix is not the best system but if you do use premix, most racers use about 30:1 mix.  Higher performance race engines use as much as 15:1 mix.

    The compromise with premix is at high speeds when the throttle is closed and the fuel and the oil flow is virtually stopped to the engine, gokarts often fail under this condition.  Its common at the end of a straight for Kart racers to put their hand over the inlet to the engine choking the carburettor and flooding the engine with petrol and oil to cool and lubricate the piston.  A hot piston and no oil causes seizures in kart race engines.

    My compromise system of leaving the standard oil pump in use and adding 100:1 fuel/oil in the petrol tank provides about 50:1 mix on the road.  At full throttle, the standard flow through the oil pump pluss the oil in the fuel gives better than 50:1 ratio protecting the engine.  At high speed when I back off the oil pump keeps feeding oil which protects the piston.  And at idle the oil pum and 100
    :1 mix keeps enough oil to keep it properly lubericated.

    I have used 2 strokes to ride to work for over 6 years and never had an oil pump or lubrication issue.  I suspect many reported oil pump failures are people who let the engine run out of oil, not really an oil pump failure.

     

     

     

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 10-14-2012 08:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Does a 2 stroke scooter need 2 stroke oil?...

    INMA:

    Different oil injected 2 strokes have different systems and ratios of oil being injected.

    My standard YAmaha Bee Wee had a throttle cable which changed the fuel pump and increased the oil at higher throttles.  It averaged 50:1 mix.

    My standard Yamaha Zuma had a fixed fuel pump and averaged about 75:1 mix on the veryol stressed engine.

    Premix is not the best system but if you do use premix, most racers use about 30:1 mix.  Higher performance race engines use as much as 15:1 mix.

    The compromise with premix is at high speeds when the throttle is closed and the fuel and the oil flow is virtually stopped to the engine, gokarts often fail under this condition.  Its common at the end of a straight for Kart racers to put their hand over the inlet to the engine choking the carburettor and flooding the engine with petrol and oil to cool and lubricate the piston.  A hot piston and no oil causes seizures in kart race engines.

    My compromise system of leaving the standard oil pump in use and adding 100:1 fuel/oil in the petrol tank provides about 50:1 mix on the road.  At full throttle, the standard flow through the oil pump pluss the oil in the fuel gives better than 50:1 ratio protecting the engine.  At high speed when I back off the oil pump keeps feeding oil which protects the piston.  And at idle the oil pum and 100
    :1 mix keeps enough oil to keep it properly lubericated.

    I have used 2 strokes to ride to work for over 6 years and never had an oil pump or lubrication issue.  I suspect many reported oil pump failures are people who let the engine run out of oil, not really an oil pump failure.

    I agree with most of this, but the racing bikes and oil injection being better than pre-mix. My race bikes run at 70/1-85/1 and they rev to at least 18000rpm and I am yet to have a failure because of oil issues. Actually half the time my rebuilds are just for "peace of mind" as the internals usually look like they have not even been used. No carbon on piston/head, hone marks still there, no piston wear etc. Race bikes running 15/1 are on alcohol not fuel and are old bikes.

    Having just been into scooters for only 3-4 months I, when doing up my minarelli copy motor ran it on the test bench. Oil pump was delivering a max ratio of 30/1 (TK 17.5mm carby,standard filterbox and filter 35idle jet-45mains, 20deg slide, air screw 2.1turns, needle 3rd clip) wide open(by oil/fuel flow rate that is).

    On running the manifold and carby on the flow bench with the standard oil pump at max opening the actual ratio of oil mixing with the fuel was 70/1 @ 8000rpm. Tried this with a japanese mukini pump with nearly the same results(68/1). 

    Now at 2000-4000 the pumps were delivering a ratio of 30/1. 

    So as you say it is a good idea to add some oil to the fuel, but pre-mix is the only sure way if you want high performance. Please note there has never been a 2 stroke factory race bike with oil injection after 1974, they are all premix!

     

     

     

     

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