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The Moped thread

Last post 03-10-2016 03:36 PM by pyrah. 50 replies.
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  • 09-10-2012 05:19 PM In reply to

    • Linz
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-09-2008
    • Macarthur, NSW
    • Posts 914

    Re: The Moped thread

    up side is Pete can make a killing renting out his stable for 3 months......just to keep the batteries charged of course...

    Don't look at WHO started it up, look at WHAT has been started up.....
  • 09-11-2012 12:14 AM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    Linz:

    up side is Pete can make a killing renting out his stable for 3 months......just to keep the batteries charged of course...

     

    Wink When the pictures arrive at Pete's house honestly it wasn't me riding whilst disqualified Stick out tongue  

    Si ‘Thi’ later
  • 09-11-2012 01:59 AM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 836

    Re: The Moped thread

    Ferrix, there are heavy mopeds like the ones shown and light mopeds which are derived from bycicles.

    In Australia heavy mopeds are technically motorbikes and need registration which is generally not possible due to the lack of a compliance plate.

    You are correct that the Rotary bikes are technically push bikes which allows them to be used on bikepaths and no registration and no license.

    You get what you pay for in life, buy a cheap $300 chinese engine for a bike and it is illegal and won't last long and is probably dangerous with the exposed chains etc.

    The Rotary bikes are expensive, that reflects the low numbers made and the high quality of the items.

    A Honda or any 50cc scooter would cost less but its not legal to use a registered motorbike on bike paths.

    I already have a 50 cc scooter for daily use, I have the Rotary bike for fun on the bike paths.  For the purists who knock power assisted bikes, people with disabilities or weak riders benifit from the assistance available from the engine. 

    At 20 km/hr, the Rotary bikes are slower than a fit person on a normal bike but great when you don't want to work up a sweat riding somewhere.

    Manufacture of the Rotary bike is Tiawanese and the quality is excellent.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 09-11-2012 08:24 AM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    INMA:
    Manufacture of the Rotary bike is Tiawanese and the quality is excellent.

    Well, maybe they improved because the one I had in the late 90s was a pile of crap. Rear wheel was manufactured so poorly it kept popping the rear tire - partially no doubt due to huge weight of the thing and partially due to poor quality of the rim. BTW, changing the rear tire is a lot more complicated than on a regular pushie, due to the engine sitting there - direct drive and eliminating the chain sounds like a neat idea, but in practice it was a hassle and again, added to the weight sitting directly on the rear wheel... I often had problems with dirt getting into the carby for some reason...Finally, far from lasting forever, the bike had no more than 5,000km (probably a lot less) when the engine shat itself completely, the mechanic pronouncing inside surface of the cylinder to be worn out. The bike was a pleasure when it worked but in the time I had it, its running cost ended up higher than my car. Perhaps if you looked at it as a project for home mechanic it would be ok, but I wanted something that would just work, without demanding constant, and I mean constant attention.

    I should thank it for one thing though: it was that experience that made me finally get off my butt and get properly licenced for two wheels... and the rest, as they say, is history :)

     

  • 09-22-2012 07:41 AM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    Stealth bikes do e-bikes that get up to 80km/h (http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com.au/) and if I had the $$$ I'd love one.

    Hyena do e-bike kits that get up to 75km/h (http://www.hyenaelectricbikes.com/)

    There was a bloke in Como in the shire who used to zip around Como and Oatley beating the traffic; he sold e-bike kits but I can't seem to find a link for him. I know that his kits could reach 70 km/h.

    2010 Yamaha "Buzzer" Beewee 100cc - Malossi 120cc Big Bore Kit, 22mm Del'Orto/Malossi Carburetor, Delta clutch, Multivar 2000 variator, Kevlar belt and Technigas RS pipe.
  • 09-22-2012 08:03 AM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    Neither of which are under the 200 watt limit for "road legal" use as a bicycle. As much fun as they would be, the law is firmly set against these bikes.

    4 years and 20,000 K's later, I'm still scootering, and you guys are stuck with me!
  • 09-22-2012 09:00 PM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    wombat:

    Neither of which are under the 200 watt limit for "road legal" use as a bicycle. As much fun as they would be, the law is firmly set against these bikes.

    Wink Cant see people risking being illegal on the road after all nobody would dream of de-restricting a LA (moped) class vehicle and going on the road with one  Stick out tongue

     

    Si ‘Thi’ later
  • 09-22-2012 10:44 PM In reply to

    • ...
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-16-2009
    • Posts 256

    Re: The Moped thread

    pyrah:
    Cant see people risking being illegal on the road after all nobody would dream of de-restricting a LA (moped) class vehicle and going on the road with one  Stick out tongue

    You can easily google up 'after' photos from when someone comes off a pushbike at 2-3 times the normal speed, though. Enjoy the pics of 4 to 9 times the amount of gravelrash..

    A while back people were having a good old whinge about how moped riders didn't have to wear a suitable helmet or much in the way of gear, in spite of having rides at or over the 50cc scooter class? ...hmm

  • 09-25-2012 12:26 PM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    What you really need is this baby...

    Unfortunately it is illegal in Oz with the power requirements and such, but I found a bloke on ebay living in NSW selling this (second hand) and he had no trouble from the police with its use...but then he might have been lucky

    A video of this A2B Metro bike

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZ-4oFD5A0

    However, if you want to stay 'legally' safe, you can buy the 'Zoco' bike from an Australian dealer

     

    Its an e-bike with Continuously Variable Planetary (CVP) Transmission for more torque. Herez its website

    http://zocoelectricbike.com.au/zoco-rossa-electric-bicycle/

    My dream 'personal trasporter' is Lyric Motion XOV3R

    Alas, not legal here, but if I had enough money I will still buy one and use it on a bike track for quick commute.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZK63YpzGxk&feature=related

    "Fear not the darkness - but welcome its embrace."
    ―Ezio Auditore da Firenze
  • 02-19-2016 02:08 AM In reply to

    • petegailey
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-03-2008
    • Cleared off, up the Mid Nth Coast
    • Posts 7,090

    Re: The Moped thread

    BUMP!

    4 years later.

    I didn't lose my licence in 2012 so i didn't take the motorised bicycle research any further, but now they're back in the frame after another encounter with Mr Plod.

    Since my last visit the laws re motorised bicycles have changed in NSW. Duncan Day, Minister for Roads has banned all petrol powered bicycles, including the Sachs/ Rotary 30cc two stroke, after some kid was killed on a souped up Chinese 2 stroke while being chased by the cops. This was a bit of uninformed knee jerk legisation that pulled the curtain on the Rotary/Sachs engines that were in fact quite a useful piece of kit.

    I know because I bought one just recently for $350. This bike travels at GPS 30k/h flat chat but it rattles and shakes with the throttle wide open, and is much more comfortable cruising at a steady 25k/h. It is quite reasonable on the road, great on the bike paths, lovely on bush tracks, but best of all along the beach at low tide.

    It has a great range on a single tank of fuel and feels like it would go all day. It always starts 1st time, works best as pedal assist and is a great way to get to the shops. The engine has a limiter in the CDI and the go was to mod the unit to derestrict it and get another 5k/h. They are big in Europe and it's a real shame they got banned here, and a lot of people lost money in the deal. What it does mean is that there are some good deals to be had for anyone prepared to risk getting caught riding one.

    The Sachs 30cc.

    So that leaves Electric as the only legal option. The max power you're allowed have in NSW is 250W although on you tube they are building bikes with 9000W engines. In the States the maximum legal size is 750W and you can buy kits with these sized engines on ebay. in the ball park of $700. The next big cost are the Lithium ion batteries. Electric powered bicycles are usually 24, 36 or 48V. The ampage on these batteries is usually 10, 15 or 20amps, the higher the amps, the further you go and the more you pay. A Lithium ion battery pack can cost between $600 and $950 depending on the voltage and ampage. Because they can't be air freighted it easiest to source them in Aus. A new battery pack should be good for 3 years and give you a range of more than 50ks. BUT Lithium battery packs have this annoying habit of shutting off when they fall below a certain voltage which means that you might be pedaling home for a recharge..

    My brother has been using electric bikes for some years and he swears by a Chinese brand with a 250W mid drive motor in the crank called an Aseako Tourney for about $1700

    http://www.aseakoelectricbike.com.au/

    He also has an old 48V rear hub Trek as a spare and he brought it around for us to try. Its supposed to be 250W but I suspect that it is closer to 350W. From what I can work out these electric engines are pretty generic and wattage can be increased by more volts and some tinkering with the controllers but the faster they go the less distance they travel.

    Even though the battery is old and on its way out, It was time to take the rear hub Trek for a run. Fully charged, and with the twist of the thumb, it was away. Fast, silent, smooth ,twist and go, no pedaling, I got it to 40k/h on the GPS, sailing down the road with the biggest grin... well for about 3ks when the battery turned off. I'd discovered its weakness and I pedaled home 

    You can't ride these things like a motorbike, well you can but only for short distances. The next time I took it out I was going for range and worked out that it could be pedaled like a normal bicycle and injected with small squirts of power from the motor to keep momentum up. Had about an 8k run at 20plus k/h and returned with charge left in the cells. Im yet to discover its full range in miser mode but it certainly wont be as good as the the Rotary. 60ks and the tanks still half full.

    The electric Trek

    Electric bicycles generally come in 3 engine configurments, rear hub, front hub, or mid drive with the engine connected to the front crank.  A mid drive motor makes sense to me, better balance, low centre of gravity and the motors power is transfered from the single front sprocket, through the chain to the rear cluster giving the rider about 7 gears. This means you can change down for hills, or up to overdrive gear for speed,  using the engines power more efficently. Im used to using Deraileur gears for hills. At the moment Im playing around with the idea of converting my old steel frame Raleigh and I'm looking at this Bafang bbs02 kit to fit onto the crank of the  road bike.

    The Bafang 750W conversion kit.

    and the Raleigh

    My needs for a motorised bicycle are short 3k runs to the shop, a longer 8k loop to the super market, an 8k loop to the beach, and a 30k run to the nearest regional centre. The last run will probably push the electric bike to its limit and I'm not that sure it will be a practical option even after buying a new battery pack, but they are still very interesting and at this stage a work in progress.

    Daelim NS 125: Mighty 1st scoot from Korea that punched way above its weight. Sold
    Vespa GTS 250: Modern Retro brilliance. I'll ride it til it dies.Traded in on a maxi.
    Suzuki DR650: "That Thing" Excellent Single 650 thumper chook chaser that was too tall. Sold
    Yamaha T Max: Best Maxi out there and serious canyon racer. Sold
    Triumph Bonneville: Modern Retro brilliance with the sweetest parallel twin.
    BMW F800R: The Naked Hun. Great intro into sports bikes.
    Gilera Runner FXR 180: 2 stroke scooter missile from Piaggio.
    Gilera Nexus 500. Sexy like red Italian stilettos.
    Yamaha RZ250RR: Retro Japanese 2 stroke racer.
  • 02-19-2016 07:55 PM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    Great article pete last year i got a Reid Wayfarer for nipping to the shop when they had them for $300 luckily the shop is closes enough for pedal power only

    Si ‘Thi’ later
  • 02-20-2016 12:22 PM In reply to

    • DaveO
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-13-2010
    • Cow Flat NSW
    • Posts 290

    Re: The Moped thread

    Now that Pyrah has introduced 'ordinary' bicycles, I would like to add a query: why do the most ordinary bicycles have the awful derailleur gear system instead of the rather lovely and virtually maintenance-free hub systems like the old Sturmey-Archer 3- and 4- speeds and the later Shimano quivalents?

    And another thing, prompted by a TV news item on farm accidents. Anyone who uses the term 'quad bike' never did Latin at school.

     

     

     

     

     

    The Red Menace
  • 02-20-2016 03:25 PM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    DaveO:

    Now that Pyrah has introduced 'ordinary' bicycles, I would like to add a query: why do the most ordinary bicycles have the awful derailleur gear system instead of the rather lovely and virtually maintenance-free hub systems like the old Sturmey-Archer 3- and 4- speeds and the later Shimano quivalents?

    And another thing, prompted by a TV news item on farm accidents. Anyone who uses the term 'quad bike' never did Latin at school.

     

    Surprise I didn't introduce ordinary bicycles but safety bicycles yep  i also like hub gears but mine is a simple single speed gone to a 20t rear sprocket from a 18t cos i'm getting old Big Smile

    Ordinary 

     

     

    Si ‘Thi’ later
  • 02-20-2016 03:51 PM In reply to

    Re: The Moped thread

    Situation in SA

    Riding a power-assisted bicycle

    A power assisted bicycle (or power-assisted pedal cycle) is a pedal cycle with a motor attached to assist the rider. The attached motor may provide assistance but the pedals must be the main means of propulsion.

    In South Australia, there are two categories of power assisted bicycles that may be used legally on our roads:

    • power assisted bicycles with up to 200 Watts of power (the power is controlled by a throttle or accelerator); or
    • power assisted bicycles with no more than 250 Watts of continuous power which meet the definition of a pedalec (the power is controlled by the ride using the pedals).

    What is a pedelec?

    In order to be a pedelec (legal for use on our roads), the power assisted bicycle must comply with the European Committee for Standardization EN 15194:2009 or EN 15194:2009+A1:2011 Cycles - Electrically power assisted cycles - EPAC Bicycle ('EN 15194') and this includes the following.

    • It must be certified by the manufacturer and labelled as complying with EN 15194. The label must have the manufacturer's name, the motor's cut off speed in km/h and its electric motor motor maximum continuous rated power in Watts. The label is often found on the bicycle's frame immediately adjacent to the crank.
    • The motor must be electric.
    • The maximum continuous power output of the motor cannot exceed 250 watts.
    • The rider must pedal to access the power (the motor may operate without pedalling up to a speed of 6 km/h).
    • The power must cut out when the pedalec reaches 25 km/h or sooner (if the operator stops pedalling).

    Road rules for power assisted bicycles

    Riders do not require a driver's licence, motor vehicle registration or compulsory third party insurance. Riders are bound by the same rules as for other bicycles, including the need for:

    • the rider to wear a helmet
    • effective brakes
    • a bell, or other audible warning device
    • a rear-facing red reflector at night
    • a white light to the front and a red light to the rear at night (both may flash) clearly visible from at least 200 metres.

    Differences between a power assisted bicycle and a motorcycle

    A power assisted bicycle is a bicycle with a motor attached to assist the rider. At first glance some motorbikes with pedals look very similar to power assisted bicycle. The main differences are speed, pedal crank spacing, weight, seat position, seat shape and gearing

    A good rule of thumb for deciding if the pedals are the main power source is:

    • if the distance between the inner faces of the cranks is less than 180 mm
    • whether it can easily be ridden without power assistance (you should be able to ride it home if the assistance motor fails)

    If these apply and the motor output is either 200 Watts (or less) or 250 Watts (and meets the definition of a pedelec), then it is a power assisted bicycle.

    If the main source of power is the motor then it is a motor vehicle and operating it requires a driver's licence, registration and compulsory third party insurance. However, few, if any, of these vehicles are able to be registered because they are not capable of meeting registration requirements, such as compliance with the Australian Design Rules. Such vehicles cannot be legally operated on our roads. 

      
    Power assisted bicycle
    This is a power assisted bicycle. It has an adjustable seat and multiple gears to make it easier to pedal, as well as a battery pack and 200 Watt motor to assist the rider.
    Electric bike looks more like a motorcycle not permitted in South Australia 
    This is not a power assisted bicycle because the seat is too low for pedalling and the pedals are so widely spaced that they are of little use. They are low enough to dig in when cornering. It is obvious that the pedals are not the main means of propulsion.
    Bike looks like a power assited bike but the motor is too powerful more than 200watts 
    This is not a power assisted bicycle because it is fitted with a petrol motor that produces more than 200 Watts in power and it is not a pedelec.
    Si ‘Thi’ later
  • 02-20-2016 11:25 PM In reply to

    • petegailey
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-03-2008
    • Cleared off, up the Mid Nth Coast
    • Posts 7,090

    Re: The Moped thread

    Great post Pyrah, nice explanation of pedelecs. and Im pretty sure that the same rules exist in NSW. It looks like we've adopted the same standards as the Europeans and not the 750W limit of the US.

    By reading some of the forums it looks pretty easy to reprogram these electric motors, and that a 250W could hot up to a 500W by adding more power and tweaking the control boxes.  Externally the motors don't change so you can't tell from the outside, without changing the stickers, the motors real wattage. and It seems like you can bypass the 25k/h speed limiter by simply disconnecting the speedo sensor, so with a few more volts and some thoughtful gearing you should be able to get up some decent speed....if you know what I mean.

    We did about 12ks today on the Trek, miser throttle, average speed 20k/h top speed 32k/h and got home with charge still in the battery. We haven't got the pedelec set up on the trek yet so I don't know what  it's like to pedal for your power, but I think that it's a great reward incentive, the more you pedal the more power you get from the motor, and  the faster you go. 

    In my recent trolling of Google I was looking for mid drive road bikes, I come across this beauty from Yamaha,  a YPJ 01 at  the Tokyo motorcycle show, damn sweet, looks like it would cost a fortune but gee it's a nice bit of eye candy.

     

    by the way Pyrah, thats a nice fixie, at a good price too, well done YesBeerYes

    Daelim NS 125: Mighty 1st scoot from Korea that punched way above its weight. Sold
    Vespa GTS 250: Modern Retro brilliance. I'll ride it til it dies.Traded in on a maxi.
    Suzuki DR650: "That Thing" Excellent Single 650 thumper chook chaser that was too tall. Sold
    Yamaha T Max: Best Maxi out there and serious canyon racer. Sold
    Triumph Bonneville: Modern Retro brilliance with the sweetest parallel twin.
    BMW F800R: The Naked Hun. Great intro into sports bikes.
    Gilera Runner FXR 180: 2 stroke scooter missile from Piaggio.
    Gilera Nexus 500. Sexy like red Italian stilettos.
    Yamaha RZ250RR: Retro Japanese 2 stroke racer.
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