Scooter
Community

wleung:

This is MY BIGGEST beef with cyclists. And I cycle to work!

Option 1) Cyclist continually lane-splits between cars at traffic lights, slows down the 20 cars behind them because they have to overtake the same bicycle mutliple times. Note that this option IS banned. 20 people annoyed, 1 person happy.

Option 2) Cyclist stays in line at traffic light, meaning cars only have to overtake them once. This option is not banned, and I would respect that cyclist. 20 people happy, 1 person annoyed.

Not one mention of "mothers or children" nor safety in neither, just stating two options. Neither one is really right or wrong, just one of them is illegal and more annoying to more people as a whole.

W

 I probably should have made that clearer.  I certainly don't support cyclists filtering to the front at lights.  The only reason a cyclist should be at the front is if their is a dedicated lane for bikes (not just solid white line lane but actual marked bike lane that doesn't interfere with cars) or that they were the first one to the lights.  

I think peoples thoughts are similar to that of motor bike rider in that the go to the front as they're not surrounded by cars not thinking that they are slower to take off. 

I take option 2 almost everytime unless situation is like outlined above.  I even take time to educate other riders I see on why riding to the front is dangerous for them. 

oh and the one outline in option 1 as illegal would make that the wrong one :-)

INMA:

... I am talking Beach Road Melbourne where there is a made bikepath and footpath for about 25 km.  A bit further on there is a pushbike lane, then the bike path/footpath, still bikes use the car lane other than going into the bike lane to miss speed humps.

I know the road and if I was there on my roadie, I too would be on the road during appropriate times like 6:30am when there's not a lot of traffic and plenty of room for faster vehicles to pass. If however they are riding at lunchtime when there's plenty of traffic, then they're just asking for trouble, one way or another.

What you've got to remember, bike paths are for casual cyclist and pedestrians just absorbing the sights, sound and smell of the ocean at probably no more than fast walking pace (i.e. not very strenuous ride). Very little thought goes into which side of the path people walk/ride on and even at a leisurely 20kmh, you'll get some people darting all over the place and more often than not, right into your path even if you've got more than ample warning with the bell and the occasional calling out.

Aside from the legally allowed to be on the road, people ride on the road for fitness. Sustaining 40kmh is B-Grade rider stuff and you can't ride a road bike (with gears) on a velodrome to get a similar patch of tarmac to train on. Even then, there aren't hills people can ride up.

The problem isn't the scooters, its impatient road users.  Funnily people don't get angry about refuse collectors stopping and starting, buses, or lorries which are slow to move, its the small and vulnerable that they have issues with.  Cycles, 50cc scooters, even bigger scooters because they CLEARLY can't go fast.  How about banning learners from the road too?  They go slowly?

The reality is that there are too many road users who are simply too impatient, and wrapped up with their own importance. Quite normal as pedestrians, you stick them in a car and they become assholes.   Slowing down occassionally won't make you much later (if at all), and you might even just be able to pay a bit more attention to what is happening around you. But I also agree that when you are a slower moving vehicle you should be cognisant of other road users, and either take alternative routes, and if you have an ability to go on the "built at significant expense cycle path next to the road" then you should be using it (particulary when it is busy).  Its not always about "ones rights" but about trying to do what is right for the greater good of all.  But the point about dual use cycle paths is valid - the relative speed differences are what causes the problems, and keeps serious cyclists on the road.

I fully agree that 50cc scooters should be allowed to travel faster (as do most of our customers/customers parents/suppliers/training partners who are motorcyclists) - it would make them safer on higher speed roads (and here in the northern burbs of Perth it is actually impossible to go from one suburb to the next without travelling at least some distance on an arterial road that is 70kmh or higher). As with dual-use paths the problem isn't absolute speed, but relative speed to other users. But try telling that to the safety *** who are experts though generally have never ridden in their lives.  So the reality is that many 50cc machines are illegally derestricted or modified so that they can be safer for the owner. Its ridiculous that people have to make that choice, but there you have it.  With the MTA I wanted them to push to change the legislation, but the feeling was that if they relaxed it on one side, they would tighten it significantly on the other (ie further restricting their use through licensing or age limits), such that the end effect would be less of them on the road (and thus, overall, a bad thing - on the whole car drivers in Perth are now far more "bike aware" since the significant increase, particularly, of 50cc scooters on the roads).  Some might say that less 50ccs on the road would be a good thing, but annoyingly despite the different licensing set-ups in each state, there has been no comparative reasearch to show the effect on safety of these different regimes, so we are still basing attitudes on opinion rather than fact. 

In summary, road users just need to learn to be a bit more patient. The world isn't going to end if they are inconvenienced for a few seconds or minutes.  End of.

steve@ace:

In summary, road users just need to learn to be a bit more patient. The world isn't going to end if they are inconvenienced for a few seconds or minutes.  End of.

Here here!

steve@ace:

In summary, road users just need to learn to be a bit more patient. The world isn't going to end if they are inconvenienced for a few seconds or minutes.  End of.

Absolutely!   Great post.

The only business, that I must admit to being a bit hessitant about is allowing folk with car licences to ride under 50cc scooters with no training or testing.

I live in NSW, and I used to think that business was great for WA and Q'land...... until I went up to Port Douglas for a holiday and saw just how useless and scarey untrained people could be on a wee scooter.

The week we were in PD, a bloke flew up from Sydney (?) with his sons, they rented wee scooters, and the father managed to kill himself with the <50cc machine.

Maybe it makes more sense in Perth?

CrazyCam:

The week we were in PD, a bloke flew up from Sydney (?) with his sons, they rented wee scooters, and the father managed to kill himself with the <50cc machine.

Heh, that is exactly how I started my riding career... except I didn't kill myself, obviously :)

My point here is however that accidents will happen no matter what - because one person had an accident while riding 50cc scooter without 2-wheel licence is not a convincing argument for changing the rules, merely another knee-jerk reaction of the sort that our politicians are (in)famous for.

Having survived that experience myself, I happen to think 50cc scoots are pretty safe in hands of average car driver as long they display some amount of common sense.

ferrix:

Having survived that experience myself, I happen to think 50cc scoots are pretty safe in hands of average car driver as long they display some amount of common sense.

 I was exactly the same.  Went from cars straight onto a 50cc scoot.  I had the benefit of riding push bikes a lot on the road so my awareness was somewhat heightened. 

I would love for all car drivers to have to ride a 50cc for a short period so they understand what it is like.  Might be a bit of an eye opener for some.  Might also sort out some issues through natural selection. 

ferrix:

CrazyCam:

The week we were in PD, a bloke flew up from Sydney (?) with his sons, they rented wee scooters, and the father managed to kill himself with the <50cc machine.

Heh, that is exactly how I started my riding career... except I didn't kill myself, obviously :)

My point here is however that accidents will happen no matter what - because one person had an accident while riding 50cc scooter without 2-wheel licence is not a convincing argument for changing the rules, merely another knee-jerk reaction of the sort that our politicians are (in)famous for.

Having survived that experience myself, I happen to think 50cc scoots are pretty safe in hands of average car driver as long they display some amount of common sense.

I am very happy that you didn't kill yourself.

Also, while in PD I saw lots of young folk, usually cute young ladies, who wobbled about (in both a good and a bad way!) with their feet hanging down, ankles on the edge of the footboards.     Sorry, but this isn't a good look.

Dunno about knee jerk reaction, at the time, my riding instructor licence (NSW) was still current, so I do have a vague clue about riding.

As for the average driver and common sense........ come on.    You have heard of oxymorons, haven't you?

CrazyCam:

As for the average driver and common sense........ come on. 

Well, yes... but the question is, can you nanny everybody all of the time - and if you could, should you? Again, in my opinion the answer is no. Idiots will always find ways of harming themselves, and I say, good riddance.

Hi ferrix.

To be perfectly honest, some days I am quite prepared to argue that Darwin and his theory should be allowed to run its course.

Let learners on motorbikes buy Panigalies or Gixxer thousands..... are we that short of people that a few less here or there would be a disaster... shrug.

Back in the mists of antiquity, in Scotland, I got my motorbike licence when I was 16 years of age, the car licence wasn't until I was 17, because of the laws at that time.

I reckon it was a good system as the really dopey folk either scared themselves off the road or died before they could do too much damage.

Other days though, I see really silly stuff done on the roads...car, bike, scooter, pushie, whatever, and think that if only they had been taught properly, maybe there would be less stupid incidents on the roads.

CrazyCam:

Let learners on motorbikes buy Panigalies or Gixxer thousands..... are we that short of people that a few less here or there would be a disaster... shrug.

Oh you know, maybe I come across as more extreme than I really am... I fully support providing as many learning opportunities as possible and I can even live with our tiered licensing system rather than letting complete novices run amok on their gixxers... mainly out of concern for whatever damage they might do to innocent bystanders, rather than any concern for their own good. At the same time, I feel there needs to be some room in the system for adults to be adult and to exercise their right to make decisions, even if sometimes they make wrong ones. I think 50cc scooters are one of those areas where an adult should be able to decide for themselves whether their skills are adequate and risks acceptable.

There is a big difference between people who buy 50cc scooters to use, and the whole scooter hire thing (particularly on the Gold Coast, or indeed in Bali).  Where people are investing in something, they seem to take it a lot more seriously than those who are just out for a bit of a laugh.  The latter don't want to know about safety, are given (and generally want) rudimentary information, and don't seem to use their brains at all.  Unfortunately the hire industry is one of the reasons that they allow people to ride them on a car license!!!  That is crazy.

Looks like pretty fair comment there, Steve.

I guess at Port Douglas, I was seeing the worst of the hire business.

 im in Brisbane . 50's on the road is a bit of a problem but seeing that 50 riders pay the same rego as road bikes here, it would be unfair to bann them from suburban roads. they are not allowed on hyways of course, but again full rego, unfair.

i sold my little 50 because i was bullied by other riders and because if im going to pay full rego then i want to be allowed on the hyway if i want to.

50's should be dirt cheap to register and  allowed on roads that are up to 80 k per hr posted. after all, they can do at least 60 and 80 + down hill. thats legal even if the traffic dont like it.

I loved my 50 and i miss it.

as for banning larger bikes in the cities? dont be absurd. just teach em better manners. easy.

steve@ace:

  Unfortunately the hire industry is one of the reasons that they allow people to ride them on a car license!!!  That is crazy.

 I'd be interested to see what would happen to the 50cc market if you had to get a licence to ride one as per riding a larger bike.  I for one never would have got a 50cc if I needed to sit a test.   I would have gone straight for a larger bike. 

I thought I read that NSW needed a motorbike licence to ride a 50cc..... how do their sales compare with the sales in states that can ride them on car licence??