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First scooter ride for many, many years.

Last post 07-13-2013 02:22 AM by INMA. 11 replies.
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  • 07-06-2013 05:06 PM

    • CrazyCam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-15-2013
    • Beecroft, NSW
    • Posts 211

    First scooter ride for many, many years.

    At long last, I got to ride the scooter that I am providing a foster home to, the Gilera 180 Runner.

    Now, it has been very many years since I have ridden a scooter at all, back in the '60's I rode various Vespas and Lambrettas, but, since the advent of the automatic scooter, I've only test ridden two, a Peugeot Speedflight, back about 12 or 13 years ago, and some Korean, four-stroke scoot whch scared me very much indeed, 'cause it was so slow.

    Anyhow, went out to Castle Hill, with the wife, in her car. Duly picked up the now registered and going Gilera.

    I did a couple of laps of the industrial estate block, to get the feel of it, and the off homeward, with the Boss following in her car.

    Well!   It was good!   Big Smile

    Ignoring the various spastic movements of feet, either looking for a foot peg or trying to do something useful, all the rest went well.

    I didn't try to pull in the clutch once.

    According the the wife, I was going well over the speed limit, but, being Italian, the speedo was a Veglia, as in Vague Liar, and the white tipex spots, painted by the real owner, appear to be somewhat over enthusiastic.

    Obviously, to Beecroft, I didn't get much chance to seriously use its power, but it did feel bloody quick.

    I'm still trying to come to terms with the time it takes to go from off-throttle to on-throttle in corners.

    I did have a couple of moments of drama where I had eased up to a right angle junction, slowed a wee bit on the brakes, then tipped into the corner, rolling on the throttle, and, because there seemed to be a lack of response, rolling on more throttle, then, suddenly, mid-corner, rather more power than I had planned for, suddenly materialised!  Embarrassed

    Anyhow, I won't bore you any more now, but will take the beast up to Pie in the Sky tomorrow, with GPS to calibrate speedo and give it a bit of a freeway run.

    But I am now, definately, a born-again scooter freak!

     

     

     

    Warning: Posting may contain traces of sarcasm and/or nuts.

    regards, CrazyCam
  • 07-06-2013 07:11 PM In reply to

    • awa355
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-20-2013
    • waikato
    • Posts 194

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    Good on ya.  The throttle response on a cvt scooter takes a little getting used to. 

    Awa and Buggsy
  • 07-06-2013 09:50 PM In reply to

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    LOL thank you so much for posting this. It makes for an entertaining read Yes

    Wanda
    Today 50 (2,500km), Montego. Fly (2,500km), Le Grande (7,000km), Vespa PX (200km), Vespa GTS250ie (46,000km), now looking at the world through Ruby coloured glasses on a Vespa GTV300ie Vie Della Moda.
  • 07-07-2013 05:46 PM In reply to

    • CrazyCam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-15-2013
    • Beecroft, NSW
    • Posts 211

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    This morning, with nice weather and permision from the Boss, I took the Gilera up to Pie in the Sky.

    It was lovely.  The scooter started dead easy, gave off anice cloud of smoke and sounded just like a chainsaw...... I was in heaven.  Smile

    I had my GPS with me to try and calibrate the speedo.

    Anyhow, along Pennant Hills Road, it was an absolute joy.   It was so effortless, even though my feet were still twitching, wanting something useful to do.   The Gilera is comfortably fast enough to allow my style of riding in that kind of traffic.

    (I hate sitting in blind spots of cars, or beside very big trucks, so I tend to slow down to make a gap in front of me in my lane, then blast past other traffic quite quickly, slowing down again when I'm in some clear space.)

    Not being able to ride like that was what had scared me when I was test riding the Korean 4-stroke thing.

    So, I learnt that 70 kph on the GPS was 80 by the speedo..... OK

    Then, onto the Freeway and up to 80kph, speedo reading 90 something, still dead easy, and, when I got to the 110 sign, off the wee thing went like a rocket to 100kph (GPS) which showed as nearly 120 kph!

    Traffic was fairly heavy, so I lurked in the empty left hand lane round the first few bends and onto the big up-hill straight, at which point I thought I'd give it a wee bit more go, and away she went, accelerating quite briskly to 110kph, up-hill, on the GPS.

    Speedo, by this time is about 140!Surprise

    A police car, at the side of the freeway reminded me that there is a time and place for everything, and I settled for the 110kph, but, as I did, I started wondering.

    Back when I rode a 125 two-stroke motorbike I had managed to get its engine to seize on that particular bit of road. At that time, quick as a flash, I had grabbed the clutch and headed for the breakdown lane.

    Now, here I am thrashing along on only my second time on the Gilera, no rev counter and no clutch to pull in, and no real idea of how much more thrashing it will take.

    Can anyone tell me what does happen if you seize the engine with CVT?

    Anyhow, off the freeway at Berowra, and through the works to Cowan, it was pottering along absolutly beautifully.

    I was desperate to try the sweeping bends from Cowan to Pie, but.... just my luck, a slow H-D was in front of me and I wasn't interested in risking passing him.

    It was busy at Pie, and there were heaps of folk blasting up and down the hill, so I decided to leave my "learner" trips up and down for another, quieter day.

    Return trip home, smooth as..... no pain in hips, no pain in knees, big grin on face..... and the feet STILL twitching.

     

    Love the smell of two-stroke in the mornings!

     

    Warning: Posting may contain traces of sarcasm and/or nuts.

    regards, CrazyCam
  • 07-07-2013 05:49 PM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 845

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    To get over the throttle response delay, drag the brake and keep some power on to keep the transmission loaded up.

    It might seem harsh but with the rear disc brake there are no issues and after a while you will adjust to turning in with the brake dragging, putting on throttle too early then when needed letting the brake off for a neat exit.

    A similar method works for slow work below the clutch engagement speed where you set high revs and control speed with the rear brake.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 07-07-2013 05:53 PM In reply to

    • CrazyCam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-15-2013
    • Beecroft, NSW
    • Posts 211

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    INMA:

    To get over the throttle response delay, drag the brake and keep some power on to keep the transmission loaded up.

    It might seem harsh but with the rear disc brake there are no issues and after a while you will adjust to turning in with the brake dragging, putting on throttle too early then when needed letting the brake off for a neat exit.

    A similar method works for slow work below the clutch engagement speed where you set high revs and control speed with the rear brake.

    Thanks for that INMA, I had got the slow business OK, and I'll try your method for faster corners.

    It sounds like what I had to do back in the 1980's when I was riding the Turbo charged bike.   Smile

     

     

    Warning: Posting may contain traces of sarcasm and/or nuts.

    regards, CrazyCam
  • 07-09-2013 08:25 PM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 845

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    I can't comment on the 180 cc engine if it seizes but I can comment on soft siezes with 100 cc and 70cc engines.

    Generally it feels like someone turned the ignition off and the engine turns over for a short while before the belt slips.

    Most siezures occur on hot hard running when the piston is overheating. As you back off the hot piston grabs the bore starting the extra heat that leads to a sieze.

    When I've stuffed a piston and cylinder, its generally when I have it screaming and it screams a bit better than other times, I think this is fun then back of to the brrrrrr noise of no more go.

    I've only had air cooled engines and after they stop I've thought of course it ran so well, it was too hot.

    If you read my stuff below it highlights I currently use the auto oiler and oil mixed in the fuel so that there is lots of oil to make sure its lubricated.

    From past experience with racing gokarts, the piston overheats as you back off because the air/petrol stops and the mixture was cooling the piston.  If I am nervous about the engine after a big climb, I will pull the manual choke on to flood a bit more petrol and oil in and back off to half throttle before completly backing off.

    Hope this make sense.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 07-10-2013 08:16 AM In reply to

    • CrazyCam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-15-2013
    • Beecroft, NSW
    • Posts 211

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    It does, indeed, make sense INMA, and I thank you.

    In the past I have experienced the engine in a two-stroke motorbike seizing, and I was really curious how the CVT might react, as the thought of the back wheel locking up at 110kph doesn't really appeal to me.

    My trouble is that I am just trying to get to grips with the differences from motorbikes to an auto scooter.

    With the scoot, since I am new to it, and I know it has been souped up in various ways, I don't have a clear idea of how hard I could/should thrash it.

    I've been told that I shouldn't just idle about on it, but ride it fairly spiritedly, but without a sensible speedo or rev.counter, I'm kind of feeling my way here.

    I have fitted the beast with a pushbike trip computer, so I can at least have an accurate speedo and clock for the dreaded school zones, but I'm still hesitant about finding where a reasonable limit is.

    I hadn't thought of adding oil to the fuel as an extra lubricant as well as the auto oiler.

    I also like the thought of pulling on the choke, although, on the Gilera, the choke control is down near the carbie and the back wheel.

    Again, thank you for your input.

    Warning: Posting may contain traces of sarcasm and/or nuts.

    regards, CrazyCam
  • 07-10-2013 09:01 PM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 845

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

     

    I have one of these to help me keep track of how the transmission is working.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230670115385?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

    Two stroke CVT scooters are heavily controlled by the transmission, and less by the engine.  The transmission should keep the engine operating inside the powerband of the engine.

    Sedate tune via the transmission has the engine working in the lower part of the powerband most of the time which reduces power and heat so the chances of a meltdown are reduced.

    Performance tuning of the transmssion has the engine working at the top of the powerband for maximum power and performance.

    With my little engine and transmission, I detuned the engine by using a standard aircleaner and lower speed (8500 rpm) in the transmission to  use the lower part of the powerband.  At about 70km/hr the transmission tops out and the engine free revs to whatever I am silly enough to use.  Even on a long meduim hill, flatout ends up with the engine hitting 10,000 rpm and accelerating hard, I back off about there because its a commuter scooter and I don't want to test the handling or engine to my destruction.

    With less power, most scooters are geared to reach their top road speed at the top of the powerband which on astandard 50cc scooter is about 5500 to 6000 rpm, more on watercooled engines.

    So its handy to know the engine speed controlled by the transmission and very handy to know when the transmission is at its top range and the engine is free reving to the scooter's top speed and the upper power band of the engine.

    Most failures occur near the top speed when the heat is the greatest inside the cylinder. 

    All that then I have to add my last piston seized at a lower speed when the aircleaner housing cracked probably leaning out the mixture.

    My solution is simple I have a spare cylinder and piston ready to install (at $70, its a cheap thing for a Yamaha zuma).

    Have a look at the SIP scooter site and be ready to buy a spare cylinder and pistons in case you need them.

    http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+kit+piaggio+180cc+_pi479656

    Again I hope this helps.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 07-11-2013 08:47 AM In reply to

    • CrazyCam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-15-2013
    • Beecroft, NSW
    • Posts 211

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    Thanks again INMA, that does help me.

    The owner of the Gilera has told me that the transmission has been "tweaked" for acceleration rather than top speed.

    The wee rev counter does look like it would help me establish when the transmission has got to its "top gear" and then I'd have some idea how hard the engine goes.

    Even just the push bike speedo, being accurate, gives me a better notion of what's happening than the Veglia on the dash.

    As for the spare barrel and piston, acroding to the owner, that was why she fitted the Malossi kit, 'cause it was easier to get than the original Gilera bits.   Not sure I really believe that!  Wink

     

    Warning: Posting may contain traces of sarcasm and/or nuts.

    regards, CrazyCam
  • 07-13-2013 02:04 AM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 845

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    If you have a Malossi cylinder, you probably should do a plug check with a new plug to check the mixture and use some premix oil to adjust the oil ratio to the higher performance engine.

    If its a super high tune running over 10,000 RPM then 30 :1 overall oil mix is about right with high quality oil.  If its a 8,000RPM engine then 50:1 overall oil mix is about right. If its a sedate tune of about 6,000RPM then the standard oiler will be ok.

    The more power made, the higher the oil ratio needed.  The way to check the overal oil ratio is to monitor the oil and petrol used over a few tanks of petrol then compare the oil used with the fuel used.

    If in doubt about the current oil needed start with 75:1 premix plus the standard oiler and see how much oil is used through a few tanks.  Do the measuremets accurately to be very sure you know the oil in the standard oiler system.

    Two stroke oils are very different these days, a good oil will be rated JASO FC or FD. The better oils are expensive, as much as I hate to admit it I am trying the Caltex motorcycle oil rated as JASO FCdue to the cost of other brands.

     

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 07-13-2013 02:22 AM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 845

    Re: First scooter ride for many, many years.

    I forgot to mention ethanol fuels and two stroke oils can be an expensive experiment.  I am not sure what octane fuel you use but stay clear of ethanol.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
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