Scooter
Community

Scooters V Motorbikes

I’ve noticed on a few threads out there that there are several scooter riders up grading from scooters to motorcycles or having both in their stables.

After riding scooters for the last 18 months and owning a Daelim NS125 and a Vespa GTS250, I recently purchased a Suzuki DR650se single dual sports motorcycle. Although I use to have a Yamaha TT500 when I was younger, I’m quite astonished how different the motorcycle and the scooters are to ride.

First thing is that there is absolutely no storage on a motorcycle. Also there is minimal instrumentation, no fuel gauge, no clock.

It also has taken some time to get used to the clutch, gear, footbrake set up of the motorcycle even though I used to ride manual bikes years ago. On the bike there is a thought process of “Oh there’s a car stopped in front of me, what do I have to do? Foot brake, clutch in, change down, change down, change down, hand brake, stop, find neutral, clutch out.” Rather than “rear brake, front brake, stop.” Its taken quite a few rides to re map my brain so it becomes instinctual.

Next big difference is the height of the seat and throwing my leg over it but this because I’m riding a tall bike. Getting off the bike is far from graceful. The seat all round is quite tiny compared with a scooter and not that comfortable for long runs. Thank god for the air hawk.

The scooters are far more agile and smoother to ride than the 650. Its akin to the Vespa feeling like a magic carpet and the Suzuki like a wild pig. The scooters win hands down in city and suburban traffic. The simplicity of a twist and go means that it is possible to weave in and out, stop quickly and accelerate away. With the bike it is sit in the traffic with everyone else. I guess the more I get used to it the more agile it will become.

Its on the freeway or out in the country when the 650 comes into its own. The acceleration and torque are blistering. If I’m overtaking a vehicle at speed on the Daelim it was a rare event, on the Vespa it a slow process that has to be thought out and set up, but on the Suzuki I can blast past instantly which is especially convenient on twisty country roads. The other place it’s obvious is up hills. The Suzuki eats hills for breakfast. It really barks when you open the throttle and there’s nothing quite like taking a 650 thumper up a mountain road.

The small tank (13ltr) and the higher fuel consumption of the bike (20k/l vs 30k/l on the scoots) means that I have a tank range of about 200ks rather than the 240 of the Vespa.

Usable top speed is about the same on the Vespa and the Suzuki. 130k/h is about as fast as I want to go. The 650 has more in it but I just about get blown off the bike if I go faster.

The other plus for the bike is its all terrain capabilities. These things will go almost anywhere where, on any road, on dirt or gravel, in the paddock and up fire trails, whereas the scooter feels out of place off the bitumen.

It was interesting that when I got back on the Vespa after riding the 650 all weekend it was for the first time I felt aware of the limitation of 12” wheels. There is a gyroscopic stability that comes with large wheels. I ride with a friend who has a motorbike and has just bought another scooter. When she test rode the GTS300 she didn’t like the small wheels. I didn’t know what she was going on about till I got off the bike and back onto the Vespa. It took about a day to get used to the handling of the Vespa again.

I guess the last thing is bang for my buck. For $7000 I got a Suzuki DR650se on road with only 3000ks and there are better bargains out there. One went through on ebay with long range fuel tank, panniers and all kitted up for outback riding for just over $6000. This is in the price range of the mid priced 250 scooters.

Although the Suzuki’s are touted as good commuters I’d prefer the scooter in town by a long shot, but out in the bush the 650 is supposed to have the goods. I know some of my scooter comrades believe that I’ve gone over to the dark side. Whether the Suzuki turns out to be a better tourer than the Vespa I guess only time will tell.

petegailey:

I know some of my scooter comrades believe that I’ve gone over to the dark side.

 

You are STILL not allowed to bring that thing to Snowy 

Yes I have gone to the dark side to but agree scooters are the IDEAL for suburbia and city.

Now if the Citicom 300 or Honda 300 were a more cruiser style I might have gone that way but it seems the Maxi/Cruiser scooters turn into whales, heavy, unatractive and uneconomical. The seat on my Virago 250 is comfortable and I have added storage with removable saddlebags and seat bag.

I am tempted to get something like the Honda300 and chop it into a cruiser but what an expensive hassle.

cygnus 125:

Yes I have gone to the dark side to but agree scooters are the IDEAL for suburbia and city.

Now if the Citicom 300 or Honda 300 were a more cruiser style I might have gone that way but it seems the Maxi/Cruiser scooters turn into whales, heavy, unatractive and uneconomical. The seat on my Virago 250 is comfortable and I have added storage with removable saddlebags and seat bag.

I am tempted to get something like the Honda300 and chop it into a cruiser but what an expensive hassle.

dont agree with the whales bit, i had a cygnus and now a nexus and i can chuck that around like a 125 around my fav little circuits and back streets at even higher speed than you can on the 125's, then it can also corner like @ pro @ 140+km/h on an 80km posted corner............................ the lil scoots have it all over the nexus though in the carpark..... but like i've said before different riders ride different machines differently............ im scared on my mates VS125 to take corners like i could on the cygnus, the VS has terrible suspension in comparison.... but thats my opinion....... also i fine it much easier to ride my bike than the scoot........ believe it or not, it's much harder to mount and dismount the nexus than my bike, also the bike has a riding position thats just me 100% spot on...... the nexus is a comprimise........ that said bike 500km nexus 5000km....... scooters win!!! if i get another if i sell the nexus, it will be a modded tmax, then i'll probably never ride the bike lol

When I say Whale I mean the styling with the huge bulbous rear end and the weight which exceeds bikes of the same capacity. As far as getting on and of some people with dissabilities may have a problem with a bike as opposed to step through design but I would like to see the storage area moved to front lockable storage. I think the TMax has the best styling with a slimmer rear.

 I think the T max and the Nexus are the best looking of the Maxi's.  I also agree with Cygnus re the big assed whale styling of the cruisers.

Interesting post Pete. Glad to see you have swapped the Daelim for the Suzuki. I must say riding my friends Vespa 250 was a whale like experience for me with those little 12 inch wheels (on the freeway at 100kph - wobbily somewhat). I just love my skinny mini maxi, the Honda SH300i. My partners Daelim S1 is growing on me to. For a different experience. The seat is softening as well. I agree you cant beat a scooter in the city to the burbs.

 The Honda SH300 is not exactly a fat assed cruiser, but closer to a bike in its handling.  That low centre of gravity and those bigwheels make it one of the best handling scooters on the road today. Its the scooter my bike riding friend ended up with. I dont have any problem with the GTS wobbling at speed but I started on the Daelim and was used to 12" wheels. Its important for tyre pressures to be right on the Vespa.

 Yep, I think you've summed up things pretty fairly and so it does come down to personal preferences as to what you end up riding. For some, It's the very basic nature of bike technology that appeals, after the over sophistication of modern cars. And just as it's hard to see why people when faced with similar cars with pretty well the same specs will choose one over another (Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Mitsubishi Overlander), I guess it's very much the same with bikes/scooters.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Having said that, what you said about "fanging" it through the mountains on your 650 being so different to the same experience on your Vespa, I think the Honda SH300 points a little towards the ride you would get on a Scarabeo 500ie.  Look back through these archives at the Harley biker who rode a Beo to Philip Isle last year and compare that with Allen's trip, also on a Beo.  Those machines allegedly hill climb  easily at the 160+kph mark. 

Just looking at the last Scooter Mag, the move to larger wheels, by scooter manufacturers, is significant but not unsurprising, given the roads here in Oz. On the other hand, while we were at this year's National Scooter Rally, we camped near a group from the UK.  They had traditional, manual scooters with all the Mod paraphernalia and you could see the love that had gone into their restoration and primping.  Ours were two Scarabeos, a 250ie and a 500ie. Although we got on well and shared many hours yarning about common interests, I think one of their statements is quite telling:  "I can see they're lovely machines, but I can't see them as scooters."

These traditional scooter owner/riders don't see big wheels as part of the scooter essence.  So they would say I'm riding an automatic bike. I find it hard not to look at the classic shape of the Beo and not see it as a scooter, but then my eyes are definitely bias 

I certainly agree with you on the point of "off road" stability though.  I keep our little river cruiser about 20km from our place, where the last 5km is a pretty rough gravel track.  I've taken both the 200cc and 500ie Beo there and neither has liked the conditions much, especially traveling in the left hand track with a slope towards the left, near the cliff edge.  The alternative is not better chancing meeting a car on blind corners while stuck out in the right hand track. Traction is only possible holding the scooter upright at speeds of between 40 - 55kph.  The few times I have tried to lean on corners have almost resulted in a slide and drop.  With different tyres it may be better, but as I do most of my riding on roads and highways, offroad tyres would not be a good idea.

I really do like the ride of my scooter, the fact I get 26km/ltr normal use and 30km/ltr on long runs, at 110kph.  These figures are a lot better than some 250cc scooters and definitely better than the 20km/ltr of most 650cc bikes.  Sure, the Beo is really only 460cc not 500cc, but the big class, big performance, big style, big economy make a definite big appeal (to me at least).

ciao,  Mike

petegailey:

The Honda SH300 is not exactly a fat assed cruiser

 

No not at all but near perfect capacity for highway cruising and city and economy. If only seating was out of the wind for highway comfort.

I reckon stretch it a little, lower the seat, rake the front a little, windscreen, big lockable storage to fill the footwell and VOILA the Eco Scooter Cruiser.

Come on Mr Honda make me one!!

 they do

it's called the scarabeo 500

andrewd:

 they do

it's called the scarabeo 500

Nah fat arsed, small wheels, heavy, more fuel, and step through for ladies with skirts. I'm not against step through but it is huge waste of space.

250 - 300cc is ideal for legal speeds and economy and I believe the Honda has some better engine/CVT articulation to address the unsprung weight issue.

Round 2 please

 i havent ridden a scarabeo, but i assume you havent either.... i'd not comment untill you did, they arent anymore fat *** considering they are a much larger capacity scoot, 16/14's arent small wheels... and they are only 27kg more, considering the dirrerence it's nothing when you compare the performance difference

 

 

i ride a nexus and it goes well handles well and uses the same ammount of fuel per km as my 2008 cygnus did, except it's only on 1/8th throttle @ 100km not 9/10th's

 

and there are times you need displacment

 

2 up with 210kg on board, my nexus accelerates up hills well past 140km/h... something a 250cc class scoot can not match is the open road overtaking power

andrewd:

i havent ridden a scarabeo, but i assume you havent either.... i'd not comment untill you did, they arent anymore fat *** considering they are a much larger capacity scoot, 15's arent small wheels...

No haven't ridden one but I've seen one close up and clearly it is fat arsed with storage apparently over the back wheel and a big empty space at the front.

I'm not into a mine's better than yours competition I just have specific requirements. If I had a mega powerfull engine I would use it and there goes the economy.

I have a bike now and restricted my self to 250cc for all round performance and economy, extra power always comes at a cost of safety and economy, I am mechanically restricted from killing myself so easily and wasting fuel. At 70 something kgs I am only a light weight and I have no need to go up hills at 140Ks.

In 33years of driving (bout 20,000Ks/year) I have had 2 speeding tickets and still manage to get  where I am going a little faster than most traffic.

Others have different priorities. I look for function and economy and doing more with less. Not so concerned with looks as weight distribution, running costs and practicality.

No need for stepthrough as my hips and legs still work ok.