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De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

Last post 07-20-2009 11:17 AM by steve@ace. 8 replies.
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  • 07-04-2009 08:40 PM

    De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    Dear Experts .... can you help? have had conflicting views from two different dealers/mechanics ..... In fact ther appears to be 2 schools of thought on running ANY engine in ... some say just flog it from day dot ,,, the more conservative approach says vary the revs and baby it for 500-100kms .... Personally I still can't see how it can do anything but HELP a restricted 50cc engine as the little bugger is ringing it's heart out at 50km/hr....so kinda puts paid to the theory of "babying it" as there is only one speed/rev range anyway so on.
  • 07-04-2009 08:54 PM In reply to

    • pyrah
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-04-2007
    • Flinders Ranges
    • Posts 11,639

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    As you say 2 schools of thought about running-in run it in the way you prefer i don't think it makes much difference these days (let the debate begin ) as for DE-restriction in most markets they are sold with no restriction so taking restriction out from new should be OK  saying that i think dealers prefer to do it at first service

    An' Ah'll tell thi that fer nowt

  • 07-06-2009 11:21 AM In reply to

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    Depends on the scoot & restriction, removing the trans washer & things like that are generally OK, removing a rev limiter isn't. There are two trains of thought with running them in. Race teams often flog them from day dot but they have spare engines & don't need to get maximum K's like a street engine, manufacturers want you to be gentle. On my own two strokes or race scoots its gentle until it frees up a bit then go for it, how many K's depends on the scoot.

    If restriction was an issue when running in they would fit 100CC two stoke's with restrictors until 1st service but they don't. 

    Both sides of have a strong argument. 

    www.scooterhq.com.au

    Where the scooters roam free
  • 07-07-2009 08:37 AM In reply to

    • dozer.
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-26-2008
    • Albury, N.S.W
    • Posts 2,431

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

     I had our LX S 50 2T delivered derestricted with 6km on the dial. Then I rode it like we stole it, and it ran in perfect. Its a 70 - 75km/h scooter now.

    DOZER.
  • 07-08-2009 07:16 PM In reply to

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    but.... how long of a life(how many k's) is your motor going to do now before you need topend rebuild???..

    Scooters and Buggies
  • 07-09-2009 05:51 PM In reply to

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    Scooter HQ:

     

    If restriction was an issue when running in they would fit 100CC two stoke's with restrictors until 1st service but they don't. 

    The big difference is that there is always the temptation/need to run a 50cc with the throttle fully open whether the restrictors are in or not.  With a 100cc, then its likely that the extra power will result in more varied speeds being experienced during the running-in period.  So leaving the restrictors in takes away that opportunity.

    But does it make a difference?  I'm not sure if I have compled enough evidence to know, but if the general recommendation for running in is no more than 3/4 throttle and 85% top speed, then leaving the restrictors in certainly helps the rider from being naturally exuberant.

     



    Ace Scooters - practitioners to the scooter addicted.

    www.acescooters.com.au
  • 07-18-2009 06:43 PM In reply to

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    Thanks for all that input from the experts -  "the general recommendation for running in is no more than 3/4 throttle and 85% top speed, then leaving the restrictors in certainly helps the rider from being naturally exuberant. my thinking  (and the reason I opted to remove the restrictions at just 230kms  was that in order to get anything OTHER than 100% throttle during the running in period and 85% of top speed (if top speed is only 50km/h) this would be about 2/3rds of a snails pace around 40km/h.... and

    a)  I felt incredibly vulnerable/unsafe going that slow
    and
    b) that I was doing the new engine no favours at 50 km/h and max revs .... 

    So by getting the derestriction done sooner than later I reckon it's a win/win/win -

    • I win coz I feel safer being able to keep up with traffic at 60km/h - 
    • The scoot wins coz I now have a reasonable range of revs and speeds (instead of FLAT OUT and STOPPED) and 
    • the Cage drivers win ... coz I aint holding them up and getting them cranky at 50km/h. 

     

    Frankly I reckon the main reason the guy I bought the scoot from sold it so cheap with such few k's on it was coz he said he felt "monstered" going down Wanneroo Rd in morning traffic ... and yet if he'd NOT listened to his mechanic (the one that told me to wait until 500km) he probably would have been enjoying his scoot instead of DREADING it !!

     

  • 07-20-2009 07:39 AM In reply to

    • INMA
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-19-2009
    • Posts 615

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    I had a 50cc Zuma derestricted and I currently have a Bee Wee 100.  I travel the same trip and its pretty much flat out regardless of which scooter.

    I accelerate faster with the 100 and have less hassle with the cars but I find I travel at a higher cruise speed with the 100.

    The Zuma engine was so conservative I believe wear due to derestriction was nil. Infact I suspect the restricted engine would have more issues with fouling exhaust and piston due to lack of heat.  The derestricted engine ran with a clean grey exhaust.

    2001 Yamaha Zuma, DR Evo 68 cylinder, Leo Vince TT derestricted, Delorto 17.5 (#98 jet), standard aircleaner, RMS fan, Race CDI, Standard oiler and premix @ 75:1 Shell SX2, Doppler SR3 variator, RMS clutch, RMS R rear shock absorber and Pirelli SL26 tyres.
  • 07-20-2009 11:17 AM In reply to

    Re: De-restriction - will it REALLY hurt a 2 stroke 50cc if done before 500km..???

    TGB303XXX:

    Thanks for all that input from the experts -  "the general recommendation for running in is no more than 3/4 throttle and 85% top speed, then leaving the restrictors in certainly helps the rider from being naturally exuberant. my thinking  (and the reason I opted to remove the restrictions at just 230kms  was that in order to get anything OTHER than 100% throttle during the running in period and 85% of top speed (if top speed is only 50km/h) this would be about 2/3rds of a snails pace around 40km/h.... and

    a)  I felt incredibly vulnerable/unsafe going that slow
    and
    b) that I was doing the new engine no favours at 50 km/h and max revs .... 

    So by getting the derestriction done sooner than later I reckon it's a win/win/win -

    • I win coz I feel safer being able to keep up with traffic at 60km/h - 
    • The scoot wins coz I now have a reasonable range of revs and speeds (instead of FLAT OUT and STOPPED) and 
    • the Cage drivers win ... coz I aint holding them up and getting them cranky at 50km/h. 

     

    Frankly I reckon the main reason the guy I bought the scoot from sold it so cheap with such few k's on it was coz he said he felt "monstered" going down Wanneroo Rd in morning traffic ... and yet if he'd NOT listened to his mechanic (the one that told me to wait until 500km) he probably would have been enjoying his scoot instead of DREADING it !!

    You make some valid points, but I'd request you try and see the bigger picture.

    The main reason that many scooter riders (particularly in places like WA) feel "monstered" is because they buy the wrong scooter for the job.  It would be much more appropriate (and it would have been our recommendation) to ride a 125cc scooter on roads like Wanneroo Road than any 50cc, vanilla, derestricted or modified.  But too many people don't have the time or the inclination to get the license.  Its a sad fact, but its true. 

    For 16 year old riders who don't have the option, we have found that a few weeks of restricted use generally bodes well for their long-term safety.  Yes, it is safer to be able to keep up with traffic, but most novice riders (of any age) would benefit getting a few kms on the clock at a max of 50kmh before taking it up to higher speeds.

    Furthermore it is still illegal to take the restrictors out.  Doing so could invoke a significant fine, and potentially for the dealer an awful lot more, particularly for new vehicles.  If, after a few weeks of ownership, a customer understanding the legal situation decides for safety reasons that he would like the restrictors removed, then that is their decision, not ours.  By taking the vehicle outside of ADR compliance, you are potentially invalidating insurance, CTP and other legal matters.  Its not a decision that should necessarily be taken lightly.

    Saying that we think that the 50kmh rule is ridiculous, and unsafe, but we don't set the legislation and we are most vulnerable to its abuse. Unfortunately if derestricted scooters became a big issue, then don't be surprised if the licensing legislation changes and we in WA will no longer have the ability to ride them on our car licenses.  As far as most car drivers are concerned (and most bike riders too), 50cc scooters IN ANY FORM are too slow and dangerous and shouldn't be allowed on the roads. 

    From a technical perspective, these engines are not designed restricted.  They are designed unrestricted, and then the artificial restrictions put in.  So, yes, they should (and do) run better without them.  The question is, during the running in period, would leaving the resrictors in help a rider to keep the vehicle within the recommended parameters?  In most cases we think it would, but at the end of the day its the customers choice.  Once the vehicle belongs to them, what the customer has done with it is their responsiblity and they can go with any recommendation that they choose.  If they want it done at 50km, then that is up to them. Smile

     



    Ace Scooters - practitioners to the scooter addicted.

    www.acescooters.com.au
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